@PartyII gameplay discussion Anonymous 2023/08/11(Fri) 13:04 No.61
Thread for general @PartyII discussion. What are you doing? What are you working toward? Why aren't you playing yet????
Re: @PartyII gameplay discussion Anonymous 2023/08/11(Fri) 13:29 No.62
Opening with a strategy discussion post about levelup and class reset mechanics: level up or reset early? Improve stats first or SP/master class first? That kind of questions.
The mechanics of interest are:
>SP gain
You gain 1 SP per level and start with 0 SP, so at level 20 you have gained 19 SP.
>class reset
You can change job, including to the same job, starting at level 20. If you change to the same job, your previous and current job are not changed (you can't double-class the same class, for example)
>level up stats
The jobs overview page on the wiki gives the numerical growth rate values for each stat for each class. This represents the high-roll number on a dice at each level up, except HP where you are guaranteed at least 1 HP. Therefore, if the value is 5 on HP, you will get between 1 and 6 HP. If it is 5 on agility, you will get between 0 and 5 agility.
>job mastery
You master a job when you unlock all its skills by accumulating enough SP. A mastered class's SP does not reset when both your previous and current job change to a different job. Otherwise, when your class is neither your current or previous job, you will lose all its SP. If you want to be a ninja/redmage, for example, since they have no common prerequisite classes, you will have to shuffle like this: thief > ninja > mage > ninja > redmage. If you don't go back to ninja before going redmage, you will be mage/redmage instead of ninja/redmage and your ninja will lose all SP if not mastered. Both the current and previous job count for prerequisites.
>wishing
You can go to the fountain of wishes to trade SP for stats. You get 2 MP or HP per SP, but only 1 of any other stat. This means that once you have mastered a class, it is better to choose to level a class with good growth rate that is lacking in MP or HP and to complement this with SP, instead of one that has great MP or HP but, say, lacks agility. On the other hand, there isn't much use for unlimited MP, unlike agility or attack, for example.
When changing class, 50% of the current value for all your stats is kept. Therefore, it is possible to keep leveling up and resetting the class to increase your stats ever higher (it's a divergent series if your stats are higher than the previous time you reset, otherwise it is convergent to 0).
The formula to determine the level you must be at to incur no stat loss upon a new reset is
L = 1+ceil(base / growth),
where L is the level, base is the value for a stat that you had at level 1, growth is the actual average growth for that stat as you level (can be approximated as 50% of the number in the wiki's jobs overview page, except for HP where you add + 0.5, and except for whatever stat you use SP for, where you add +2 for HP or MP and +1 for anything else). Ceil(X) is the ceiling function, i.e. the next lowest integer value. For example, Ceil(0.1) = 1, Ceil(7) = 7, Ceil(9.9) = 10.
Since stat increases are independent of level value, the equation is linear. Thus, you can multiply L by 2 to get the level at which you will have doubled the stats you start up with after the next class change.
Strategy 1:
You can use the formula to determine how to level up with no stat loss after changing to a class with different growth rates than your previous class, thus increasing all stats except your slowest-growing ones, which you keep stable. This way, you can use fast-growing classes like liquid metal slime to boost your mp, agi and defense quickly without your hp and attack going to 0. Then you can change to another class to take care of growing your attack and hp. However, this may require leveling for a long time, depending on the value of your stats and the growth rate.
Strategy 2:
You can ensure you will always increase all your stats by some amount (say 50% or 100%) by finding the lowest level among all your stats that you need to achieve to obtain this effect. This way, you will always be growing, even though your growth rate will depend on your class.
Since mastery conserves all SPs, you can then trade all further SPs to stats. This can be used to grow a strong stat even faster, or to prevent a weak stat from making leveling too painful. Therefore, mastering a class before leveling it may seem like a good idea.
On the other hand, the higher your level, the more your base stats, the easier it is to level, therefore the more SP you will get.
But if you focus on leveling your SP, and keep resetting at level 20, your stats will go down very fast!
Overall, it is probably the better strategy to try to get both at once. Level up so as to not lose any stat and reset the class at 0 when trying to master it, or at a higher value when trying to raise stats more. Higher stats lets you tackle harder contents. This means easier leveling, which means more SP.
Or, you can abuse samurai cointoss to master a class, and then level it! But then you don't get to experience your classes' mechanics and potentials until it's too late!
The mechanics of interest are:
>SP gain
You gain 1 SP per level and start with 0 SP, so at level 20 you have gained 19 SP.
>class reset
You can change job, including to the same job, starting at level 20. If you change to the same job, your previous and current job are not changed (you can't double-class the same class, for example)
>level up stats
The jobs overview page on the wiki gives the numerical growth rate values for each stat for each class. This represents the high-roll number on a dice at each level up, except HP where you are guaranteed at least 1 HP. Therefore, if the value is 5 on HP, you will get between 1 and 6 HP. If it is 5 on agility, you will get between 0 and 5 agility.
>job mastery
You master a job when you unlock all its skills by accumulating enough SP. A mastered class's SP does not reset when both your previous and current job change to a different job. Otherwise, when your class is neither your current or previous job, you will lose all its SP. If you want to be a ninja/redmage, for example, since they have no common prerequisite classes, you will have to shuffle like this: thief > ninja > mage > ninja > redmage. If you don't go back to ninja before going redmage, you will be mage/redmage instead of ninja/redmage and your ninja will lose all SP if not mastered. Both the current and previous job count for prerequisites.
>wishing
You can go to the fountain of wishes to trade SP for stats. You get 2 MP or HP per SP, but only 1 of any other stat. This means that once you have mastered a class, it is better to choose to level a class with good growth rate that is lacking in MP or HP and to complement this with SP, instead of one that has great MP or HP but, say, lacks agility. On the other hand, there isn't much use for unlimited MP, unlike agility or attack, for example.
When changing class, 50% of the current value for all your stats is kept. Therefore, it is possible to keep leveling up and resetting the class to increase your stats ever higher (it's a divergent series if your stats are higher than the previous time you reset, otherwise it is convergent to 0).
The formula to determine the level you must be at to incur no stat loss upon a new reset is
L = 1+ceil(base / growth),
where L is the level, base is the value for a stat that you had at level 1, growth is the actual average growth for that stat as you level (can be approximated as 50% of the number in the wiki's jobs overview page, except for HP where you add + 0.5, and except for whatever stat you use SP for, where you add +2 for HP or MP and +1 for anything else). Ceil(X) is the ceiling function, i.e. the next lowest integer value. For example, Ceil(0.1) = 1, Ceil(7) = 7, Ceil(9.9) = 10.
Since stat increases are independent of level value, the equation is linear. Thus, you can multiply L by 2 to get the level at which you will have doubled the stats you start up with after the next class change.
Strategy 1:
You can use the formula to determine how to level up with no stat loss after changing to a class with different growth rates than your previous class, thus increasing all stats except your slowest-growing ones, which you keep stable. This way, you can use fast-growing classes like liquid metal slime to boost your mp, agi and defense quickly without your hp and attack going to 0. Then you can change to another class to take care of growing your attack and hp. However, this may require leveling for a long time, depending on the value of your stats and the growth rate.
Strategy 2:
You can ensure you will always increase all your stats by some amount (say 50% or 100%) by finding the lowest level among all your stats that you need to achieve to obtain this effect. This way, you will always be growing, even though your growth rate will depend on your class.
Since mastery conserves all SPs, you can then trade all further SPs to stats. This can be used to grow a strong stat even faster, or to prevent a weak stat from making leveling too painful. Therefore, mastering a class before leveling it may seem like a good idea.
On the other hand, the higher your level, the more your base stats, the easier it is to level, therefore the more SP you will get.
But if you focus on leveling your SP, and keep resetting at level 20, your stats will go down very fast!
Overall, it is probably the better strategy to try to get both at once. Level up so as to not lose any stat and reset the class at 0 when trying to master it, or at a higher value when trying to raise stats more. Higher stats lets you tackle harder contents. This means easier leveling, which means more SP.
Or, you can abuse samurai cointoss to master a class, and then level it! But then you don't get to experience your classes' mechanics and potentials until it's too late!
Re: @PartyII gameplay discussion Anonymous 2023/08/11(Fri) 14:03 No.64
It's worth noting that job changes will:
- unlock new stages/maps/challenges
- make more equipment available at the stores
- increase your available Vault space
- give you access to a couple of secret areas/stores
Re: @PartyII gameplay discussion Anonymous 2023/08/11(Fri) 15:02 No.65
I wouldn't say they're impossible, that depends on your class. For example you can comfortably do faerieforest even at level 1 if you have an AoE that deals about 130 damage (like kaboom, razorgale or cointoss) and enough resources (usually mp) to supply it. That will greatly boost your exp acquisition obviously.
But without using AoEs this way (+ likely investing SP into MP to keep it going at low levels), you're not going to go much further than seacove for a while, for sure. Beside, other maps like hellbeach and magma mountain have really shitty common mobs that can outright ruin your run if you can't kill them before they can move.
As for equipment, it's helpful to unlock it even early on. Although you can drop equipment much earlier from chests (like getting a 7th class change store item at level 4 after defeating the slime for the first time on your first job change), sometimes you get unlucky for a long time. Plus, bosses become much harder later on, so you'll have to rely on @Dungeon or choose between items or exp.
But without using AoEs this way (+ likely investing SP into MP to keep it going at low levels), you're not going to go much further than seacove for a while, for sure. Beside, other maps like hellbeach and magma mountain have really shitty common mobs that can outright ruin your run if you can't kill them before they can move.
As for equipment, it's helpful to unlock it even early on. Although you can drop equipment much earlier from chests (like getting a 7th class change store item at level 4 after defeating the slime for the first time on your first job change), sometimes you get unlucky for a long time. Plus, bosses become much harder later on, so you'll have to rely on @Dungeon or choose between items or exp.
Re: @PartyII gameplay discussion Anonymous 2023/08/11(Fri) 15:43 No.66
If anyone's wondering what the original Japanese jokes for the OneLiner skill were (we had to come up with completely new ones since teh wordplay didn't work in English at all), here they are:
教会に行くのは今日かい？
ルカナンでも唱えるかなん♪
そんなステテコパンツもうステテコい！
スカラを使ってすかられた
アンタそうりょかい？そうりょ
やくそうをこんがりやくぞう♪
賢者を発見じゃ！
Re: @PartyII gameplay discussion Anonymous 2023/08/11(Fri) 21:58 No.68
Skills like muster strength, oath and the non-elf version of oomph, which double your attack power, along with an erdrick's sword, means you can max out the attack stat (i.e. to 999, the max allowable value for players) by just sporting a base 328 attack. With a liquidmetalsword, easily obtained from the casino, 340 attack is enough (keeping in mind the max buff for a stat is 2.5x its normal value)
For defense, since no buff is anywhere near this good, maxing out the stat is a lot harder. Then again, defense may not be all that important since crits, many "armor piercing" attacks, and magic all bypass it.
Agility can be improved only by wearing equipment that typically sacrifices defense or attack (such as the uberdoubleedge, which has -30 attack, and a random weight between -59 and 0, or the scandalous swimsuit, which sports between -29 and 0 defense, along with between -99 and 0 weight). Even in the best case scenario (lucky diceroll when entering the combat), you can only get +128 agility that way.
Assassin's and ninja's padfoot allows doubling agility per cast, much like muster strength or oomph, but no variant exists that can be targeted to someone but the caster's self. Realistically, you would want 400 agility to max the stat during combat with 2 agility buffs if using weapons like falconknifeearings. DragovianKingSword is more effective in this case (it's based on attack instead), though. Since you would rather use turns to buff damage than agility most of the time, it's probably a good idea to consider maxing agility to 999 anyway.
MP and HP can't be improved by equipment. For MP, there's a limit beyond which it's merely convenient rather than useful to have, depending on your role in the party vs the skills you must use to complete this role. Moreover, having an MP refill skill like osmose, ladysthongue or cherbusarrow can almost entirely obviate the need for more than your mana requirements + a safety buffer.
HP is the only stat that can tank damages from all sources (magic, armor piercing, normal, statuses like poison...). Therefore, the more the better.
Stat priority for endgame is therefore: get agility high enough for your equipment + enough to not miss all the time (if applicable, non-physical skills do not miss via agility checks) and get MP high enough to fulfill your role requirements; get attack to ~340 (or less depending on gear of choice and party composition) if you are a physical main damage dealer, max HP, increase defense and agility at will.
If using an agility-based attack like Hi-Jump or Chocobuckle, replace attack with agility to 400 and make sure you have padfoot. In this case, you can disregard the attack stat.
The best damage-multipliers in the game come from Hatchetman (x3), frenzy (x3, but using an alternate damage formula, closer to x6 when greatly exceeding enemy defense and more like x0 when not exceeding it, prior to tension), chocobuckle, gungnir, and darkartsowrd in that order. Chocobuckle is the only agility-based skill on the list, and gungnir and chocobuckle are that high because they are armor-piercing (they can deal slightly more damage than hatchetman depending on circumstances). However, falconslash and hi-jump are the next two highest-powered skill, and they're also agility-based. Skills above gungnir are not risk-free (they sometimes hit allies or do no damage, for example).
Thus, overall, attack-based damage is the most powerful and attack is the easier stat to raise.
For AoE skills, pearly gates, followed by nonsense arrow, are the mos powerful skills. The former is defense-based and the latter is agility-based.
For defense, since no buff is anywhere near this good, maxing out the stat is a lot harder. Then again, defense may not be all that important since crits, many "armor piercing" attacks, and magic all bypass it.
Agility can be improved only by wearing equipment that typically sacrifices defense or attack (such as the uberdoubleedge, which has -30 attack, and a random weight between -59 and 0, or the scandalous swimsuit, which sports between -29 and 0 defense, along with between -99 and 0 weight). Even in the best case scenario (lucky diceroll when entering the combat), you can only get +128 agility that way.
Assassin's and ninja's padfoot allows doubling agility per cast, much like muster strength or oomph, but no variant exists that can be targeted to someone but the caster's self. Realistically, you would want 400 agility to max the stat during combat with 2 agility buffs if using weapons like falconknifeearings. DragovianKingSword is more effective in this case (it's based on attack instead), though. Since you would rather use turns to buff damage than agility most of the time, it's probably a good idea to consider maxing agility to 999 anyway.
MP and HP can't be improved by equipment. For MP, there's a limit beyond which it's merely convenient rather than useful to have, depending on your role in the party vs the skills you must use to complete this role. Moreover, having an MP refill skill like osmose, ladysthongue or cherbusarrow can almost entirely obviate the need for more than your mana requirements + a safety buffer.
HP is the only stat that can tank damages from all sources (magic, armor piercing, normal, statuses like poison...). Therefore, the more the better.
Stat priority for endgame is therefore: get agility high enough for your equipment + enough to not miss all the time (if applicable, non-physical skills do not miss via agility checks) and get MP high enough to fulfill your role requirements; get attack to ~340 (or less depending on gear of choice and party composition) if you are a physical main damage dealer, max HP, increase defense and agility at will.
If using an agility-based attack like Hi-Jump or Chocobuckle, replace attack with agility to 400 and make sure you have padfoot. In this case, you can disregard the attack stat.
The best damage-multipliers in the game come from Hatchetman (x3), frenzy (x3, but using an alternate damage formula, closer to x6 when greatly exceeding enemy defense and more like x0 when not exceeding it, prior to tension), chocobuckle, gungnir, and darkartsowrd in that order. Chocobuckle is the only agility-based skill on the list, and gungnir and chocobuckle are that high because they are armor-piercing (they can deal slightly more damage than hatchetman depending on circumstances). However, falconslash and hi-jump are the next two highest-powered skill, and they're also agility-based. Skills above gungnir are not risk-free (they sometimes hit allies or do no damage, for example).
Thus, overall, attack-based damage is the most powerful and attack is the easier stat to raise.
For AoE skills, pearly gates, followed by nonsense arrow, are the mos powerful skills. The former is defense-based and the latter is agility-based.
Re: @PartyII gameplay discussion Anonymous 2023/08/11(Fri) 22:00 No.69
... but the more hp you have, the more damage you will take from poison (it always takes out 1/10th of your hp), so much for "tanking poison".
Re: @PartyII gameplay discussion Anonymous 2023/08/12(Sat) 16:48 No.71
Faerie skills may seem pretty shitty since they're so random and can affect you just as well as the enemy, but they bypass all boss protections. This means gobstopper can prevent a boss from using magic, even if the boss has >999 hp and >999 defense. Likewise, blindfold (also the gambler's) can reduce boss hit chance, even all the way down to 0 if one were so lucky.
Re: @PartyII gameplay discussion Anonymous 2023/08/13(Sun) 04:26 No.74
"Sure hit" skills like metalslash bypass attack reflect, parry, and similar statuses, making them a lot more useful than they may seem at first despite their apparently low damage.
Re: @PartyII gameplay discussion Anonymous 2023/08/13(Sun) 13:13 No.75
Since buffs are applied on the basis of your base stats, but take your equipment into account to limit their magnitude (i.e. if you have 100 attack with a 150 damage weapon, you will not be allowed to apply an attack buff, but if you have a 50 damage weapon, a 50% buff will increase your attack by 50, not 75), it is more accurate to think of weapons and armors as permanent buffs than separate stat increasing items.
This has interesting repercussions for different roles: a party member dedicated to taking out mobs so that the rest of the party can keep as much MP and HP as possible for the boss encounter wants to maximize "minimum damage" to reduce the amount of turns needed in each room. Therefore they should used fixed-damage weapons (can't afford to use buffs, and you'd have to be lucky for 9 rooms in a row to make a variable-damage weapon work for you).
On the other hand, a party member specialized in beating up the boss should think about the weapon in terms of "amount of buff turns required". This makes axe-type weapons far more interesting than for normal leveling up or mobbing: with no weapon, you will need 2 turns to fully buff with e.g. oomph (since the max is +150% and oomph gives you +100% per cast). The dragoviankingsword, since it adds a fraction of your base attack as damage, up to +150%, gives an average +75% attack bonus, so on average you need only 1 buff turn, and you are equally likely to require 2 turns or 0 turns to achieve max or near-max buffs, so long as your attack is 400 or less. The higher your attack over 400, the more likely you are to not need any buffs with it.
The conqueror's axe can give you a fixed bonus of 300, 200, 100 or 0. At 400 base attack, this means 50% chance that one buff is enough (even though you won't reach max, the different is little between 300 and 200), and 50% chance of requiring 2 buffs, so 1.5 on average. The megaton hammer (can give either 300 or 0) also has the same chance of requiring the same amounts of buffs: but you will either reach max (300) or null (0) so it's actually more likely to fully max out than before (which is the end of the damage scale you care about). Hence, axe-type weapons with fewer graduations are actually superior options because there is no real difference in terms of buff amounts required.
In conclusion: the best weapon for a one-on-one specialist (i.e. boss killer) is the dragoviankingsword, or failing that the axe-type weapons with 300 max damage.
Meanwhile, for mobbers and for leveling, the best weapon is the erdrick's sword, if the weight can be managed, otherwise the metalkingsword, since they have the highest minimum damage bonus.
This has interesting repercussions for different roles: a party member dedicated to taking out mobs so that the rest of the party can keep as much MP and HP as possible for the boss encounter wants to maximize "minimum damage" to reduce the amount of turns needed in each room. Therefore they should used fixed-damage weapons (can't afford to use buffs, and you'd have to be lucky for 9 rooms in a row to make a variable-damage weapon work for you).
On the other hand, a party member specialized in beating up the boss should think about the weapon in terms of "amount of buff turns required". This makes axe-type weapons far more interesting than for normal leveling up or mobbing: with no weapon, you will need 2 turns to fully buff with e.g. oomph (since the max is +150% and oomph gives you +100% per cast). The dragoviankingsword, since it adds a fraction of your base attack as damage, up to +150%, gives an average +75% attack bonus, so on average you need only 1 buff turn, and you are equally likely to require 2 turns or 0 turns to achieve max or near-max buffs, so long as your attack is 400 or less. The higher your attack over 400, the more likely you are to not need any buffs with it.
The conqueror's axe can give you a fixed bonus of 300, 200, 100 or 0. At 400 base attack, this means 50% chance that one buff is enough (even though you won't reach max, the different is little between 300 and 200), and 50% chance of requiring 2 buffs, so 1.5 on average. The megaton hammer (can give either 300 or 0) also has the same chance of requiring the same amounts of buffs: but you will either reach max (300) or null (0) so it's actually more likely to fully max out than before (which is the end of the damage scale you care about). Hence, axe-type weapons with fewer graduations are actually superior options because there is no real difference in terms of buff amounts required.
In conclusion: the best weapon for a one-on-one specialist (i.e. boss killer) is the dragoviankingsword, or failing that the axe-type weapons with 300 max damage.
Meanwhile, for mobbers and for leveling, the best weapon is the erdrick's sword, if the weight can be managed, otherwise the metalkingsword, since they have the highest minimum damage bonus.
Re: @PartyII gameplay discussion Anonymous 2023/08/13(Sun) 15:13 No.76
This is great info, arigatou! ヽ(´∇`)ノ
Re: @PartyII gameplay discussion Anonymous 2023/08/13(Sun) 18:46 No.77
Except for frenzy, which is special, damage is calculated from non-direct damage (i.e. those attacks that scale off your stats and are not armor piercing -- fixed-damage skills are "direct damage") with the following formula:
0.5 * incoming_attack * tension_multiplier - 0.3 * (enemy_armor + enemy_defense)
For direct damage, the same formula is applied against special enemies that have >999 defense, such as metal slimes, which is why "armor piercing" and magic (they're the same thing as far as damage calculation is concerned) does not work well on these mobs.
For direct damage on "normal" mobs, the formula is simply the incoming_damage * tension_multiplier, no reduction by armor and no 0.5 base multiplication factor.
Therefore, the absolute maximum direct damage that can be achieved is:
- Hatchetman, which has a *3 multiplier: 999*3*0.5 = 1,498.5 "base" damage
- Skills like doubleup, *2 multiplier: 999*2*0.5 = 999 "base" damage
- Skills like flameslash, *1.2 multiplier: 999*1.2*0.5 = 599.4
That's quite a lot better than what can be achieved with fixed-damage skills, which I believe cap at 210 damage from summoner's Bahamut (or 230 for the single-target gigaslash from Elementalist)
At 400 attack, easily achieved with just a few stat resets and a LiquidMetalSword, the figures are 600, 400 and 240 respectively. Even a humble FlameSlash would do better than a Bahamut or a GigaSlash.
For AoEs, the strongest skills being MagicBurst (2*mp), NonsenseArrow (1.4*agi), PearlyGates (1.5*def), Octaslash (1.2*att) and MegaSlash (1.0*att), MagicBurst aside since it's only usable once (twice with an ElfinElixir handy), the strongest AoEs (NA, PG) deal 699.3/280 and 749.25/300 all-damage respectively.
Another insight this little napkin math gains us is that we now know that for higher-level mobs, which have up to beyond 500 hp, assuming 400 main stat as a reasonable local maximum, at least 2 party members should be taking up mobbing roles in the party for best results.
For end-game bosses and metal slimes, which have more than 999 def and thus are "unaffected" by fixed damage or "armor piercing" concepts, DoubleUp will be far more useful than Gungnir. However, for other enemies, since Gungnir does armor pierce with a *1.4 multiplier, it is superior to using a *2.8 multiplier non-armor-piercing skill. Thus, it is about as powerful as HatchetMan or Frenzy, despite having 0 downsides, unlike those skills. Meanwhile, Chocobuckle is slightly stronger, with its *1.5 multiplier.
0.5 * incoming_attack * tension_multiplier - 0.3 * (enemy_armor + enemy_defense)
For direct damage, the same formula is applied against special enemies that have >999 defense, such as metal slimes, which is why "armor piercing" and magic (they're the same thing as far as damage calculation is concerned) does not work well on these mobs.
For direct damage on "normal" mobs, the formula is simply the incoming_damage * tension_multiplier, no reduction by armor and no 0.5 base multiplication factor.
Therefore, the absolute maximum direct damage that can be achieved is:
- Hatchetman, which has a *3 multiplier: 999*3*0.5 = 1,498.5 "base" damage
- Skills like doubleup, *2 multiplier: 999*2*0.5 = 999 "base" damage
- Skills like flameslash, *1.2 multiplier: 999*1.2*0.5 = 599.4
That's quite a lot better than what can be achieved with fixed-damage skills, which I believe cap at 210 damage from summoner's Bahamut (or 230 for the single-target gigaslash from Elementalist)
At 400 attack, easily achieved with just a few stat resets and a LiquidMetalSword, the figures are 600, 400 and 240 respectively. Even a humble FlameSlash would do better than a Bahamut or a GigaSlash.
For AoEs, the strongest skills being MagicBurst (2*mp), NonsenseArrow (1.4*agi), PearlyGates (1.5*def), Octaslash (1.2*att) and MegaSlash (1.0*att), MagicBurst aside since it's only usable once (twice with an ElfinElixir handy), the strongest AoEs (NA, PG) deal 699.3/280 and 749.25/300 all-damage respectively.
Another insight this little napkin math gains us is that we now know that for higher-level mobs, which have up to beyond 500 hp, assuming 400 main stat as a reasonable local maximum, at least 2 party members should be taking up mobbing roles in the party for best results.
For end-game bosses and metal slimes, which have more than 999 def and thus are "unaffected" by fixed damage or "armor piercing" concepts, DoubleUp will be far more useful than Gungnir. However, for other enemies, since Gungnir does armor pierce with a *1.4 multiplier, it is superior to using a *2.8 multiplier non-armor-piercing skill. Thus, it is about as powerful as HatchetMan or Frenzy, despite having 0 downsides, unlike those skills. Meanwhile, Chocobuckle is slightly stronger, with its *1.5 multiplier.
Re: @PartyII gameplay discussion Anonymous 2023/08/13(Sun) 19:40 No.78
It takes only about 2000 exp to go from level 98 to level 99. the maximum possible level. Meanwhile, ElevatingShoes give you up to 220 exp per run. Clearly they are a fantastic item to hold onto at all times, and never deprecates.
Re: @PartyII gameplay discussion Anonymous 2023/08/14(Mon) 03:51 No.80
Since the max level is a lowly 99, and it's so fast to level up, there isn't much point in aiming for specific levels to respec. Instead, just go all the way to 99 and reset. You'll get diminishing returns that become harsh enough not to want to restart after the 3rd or 4th time. Seeds and Sp can be used to fix up stats beyond that point.
Re: @PartyII gameplay discussion Anonymous 2023/08/14(Mon) 23:50 No.86
Game turns happen "as they arrive" on the server. Every time a player (any player) takes a turn, the enemy team also takes a turn. The same player can play twice in a row, or a player can simply never play at all, or each player can play in turn. That doesn't make any difference to the server.
Therefore, it is better to conceptualize the entire party as 1 "combined character" than as 4 (or such) individual characters. This way, it becomes much easier to think about how the game plays.
In party play, communication is key. Even if players are hurt, maybe it's better to keep attacking as players die than to heal. If the healer independently moves to heal the support, it can cause the boss to use his strong attack against the unprepared tank who expected to move next so that he could defend first.
So, for best party mileage, think about what ot do next as if you owned all characters at once, and could only move one. Then, communicate what action you think is best, so that the right player can do the right thing!
Therefore, it is better to conceptualize the entire party as 1 "combined character" than as 4 (or such) individual characters. This way, it becomes much easier to think about how the game plays.
In party play, communication is key. Even if players are hurt, maybe it's better to keep attacking as players die than to heal. If the healer independently moves to heal the support, it can cause the boss to use his strong attack against the unprepared tank who expected to move next so that he could defend first.
So, for best party mileage, think about what ot do next as if you owned all characters at once, and could only move one. Then, communicate what action you think is best, so that the right player can do the right thing!
Re: @PartyII gameplay discussion Anonymous 2023/08/15(Tue) 00:55 No.87
A trick to maximize exp per hour: if you do @Party and reach the boss, @RunAway after killing him rather than progressing to the treasure room. This will allow you one more @Party run before having to rest again.
Re: @PartyII gameplay discussion Anonymous 2023/08/15(Tue) 14:08 No.88
Beginner's guide: an attempt
In this post I want to lay out some "what do I even do in this game?" kind of advice. It's not authoritative or anything, but it's more interesting than "well, there are some areas you can go to... or something".
First, we have a version with contextual music available at https://cgi.heyuri.net/party2/bgm-frame.html so use that URL instead of the normal (/party2/) if you like that kind of things!
Second, we have a userscript that changes the interface in various ways, such as adding chat macros and ensuring actions are only sent to the server when the server is ready, so you don't have to log back in if you dared speak too fast. It is a big hack due to how the server works, so it suppresses some messages (like "you can't @Proceed" after you reach the treasure room), and so you should only use it after you get somewhat familiar with the game. Usage is, of course, entirely optional in any case. It is available here:
https://greasyfork.org/en/scripts/472792-heyparty
>New character
First thing you'll have to do is register a new character. Not all classes are created equal. At the beginning of the game, magic type classes are starter to begin with than physical characters. However, physical characters have better late-game potential.
I recommend one of these starting classes:
- Mage - manage your MP well so you won't have to @RunAway midway through a @Party quest. The fixed damage nature of Mage spells make them excellent starting characters since you don't have to build stats or get good weapons to start hitting hard. Invest in armor first so you can beat up bosses and get treasure as soon as you can.
- Shepherd - agility is low so you won't wear much equipment. You will rely on slowly wittling down rooms using Nap to recover, so invest in a weapon rather than armor until you can consistently reach the boss. You should use your defense boost (Buff) to face the boss when you have low base armor. BodySlam is an excellent skill, but it will also hurt you by quite a bit. An interesting trick is that since negative statuses overwrite each other, if you're facing a boss that does MotionSeal a lot, you can Nap for "free" (your sleep will be cancelled as soon as you receive your MotionSeal) right after you BodySlam the boss.
- Thief - While not the easiest to start with, with high agility they're able to equip all the gear you want. Early on, gear carries you to places you shouldn't be, which makes them a good choice for a starting character, if you can get through the first few level ups on your own.
Other classes can be good, too (warrior is a very strong early character and remains valuable at any stage of the game, for example, sporting the 2nd most powerful single-target attack in the game, a decent fixed-damage AoE, and the awesome MusterStrength buff. Archer has the second best AoE in the game (NonsenseArrow), one of the rare MP regeneration skills (CherubsArrow), and an OK single-target skill (FlashArrow). However, they can be harder to start with because they require good stats to truly shine. Early on, physical attackers will also be plague with accuracy issues, enemy armor damage reduction, and low damage due to low attack stats. Magic users use mostly fixed-damage skills that bypass enemy armor and cannot miss (although they can be dodged, this is rare), meanwhile.
>Commands
The game is text command-based, verbs are preceded by @ and targets by >. For example, @Move>Quest will move to the zone called Quest, @Buy>MedicinalHerb will buy an item called MedicinalHerb. The game also features interactive HTML elements (i.e. tables, buttons...) that allow you to generate those command strings more easily. For example, clicking @Buy at the ItemShop will show a table of items you may buy. You can then click an entry and the game will put @Buy>[ItemName] in the chatbox for you.
>How to start
Depending on your character, go to the weapon and/or armor store and buy some starting gear. Mind your agility: if it gets too low, you will not be able to hit enemies (at 0 agility, they have a 38% chance to dodge any of your physical attacks).
Some weapons and armors have variable stats, for example variable attack power and variable weight values. Due to how the game works, those values will update with every page reload. In combat, the values will be fixed throughout each room regardless of reloads, but they will change between rooms. Those are generally not recommended, although they can be a good choice if you really lack a certain stat (e.g. attack power) and need something lighter than you can otherwise find to gamble on facing a boss with a high enough attack value.
Do not bother buying items such as MedicinalHerb or AntidoteHerb. They are too much of a moneysink at this point, and of very limited use. At best, they can help you beat the first 3 bosses a little easier, but it's faster and cheaper to just level up a little more instead.
The main activity in the game is to go fight in @Party quests. You can form parties to do so, but it's better to go alone until you understand the game mechanics. Beside, parties are complicated due to turn ordering, it's not like a typical RPG.
In any case, @Move>Quest, then do @Make to create a quest. Choose the @Party quest and choose PuniPuniPlains as the area. Choose a party name and press @Party to get started.
>How 2 fite
Fighting is straightforward for the most part. However, note that @Attack or @Skill for single-target Skills will choose an enemy at random (likewise for single-target buffs, they will choose an ally at random) by default. You can target those moves by choosing the move, and then clicking the target (i.e. the enemy's sprite) to generate a string like @Attack>@SlimeA. This will ensure you attack this specific enemies.
Enemies (like allies) in any position will take 15% less damage than in the previous position. For example, the vanguard takes 100% damage from all sources, but the rearguard in a 4-man party takes only ~61.4% damage. Therefore, unless there are particularly nasty enemies, such as those that can poison or paralyze you, you should do targeted attacks against the frontmost enemy to kill them as fast as possible. Note that this doesn't actually affect the total damage you receive because the entire enemy team moves exactly once anytime anyone on the ally team moves (and except for magic, only the frontmost enemy will attack next).
@Party quests are formed of "rounds", a certain amount of fight with small fries that ends with a boss fight and, if successful, a treasure room.
>Boss????
Early on, you might not even be able to reach all the way to the 10th round (the boss round). That's OK, just @RunAway when you die, reheal, and come back for more. You will slowly grow in level and gather enough gold and agility to buy some better gear. Eventually, you'll be able to face the boss confidently.
Bosses are mostly statchecks, there isn't that much tactic that can be employed because of the way the game turns work. However, you can increase your odds significantly if you have the right skill combination (for example, a cheap heal skill like Monk's chakra can let you stay alive far longer, enabling you to beat a boss you wouldn't be able to approach otherwise). Early on, you will benefit from a skill like archer's FocusPocus, which restores your accuracy, since the 2nd boss loves to cast Sandstorm a lot. Accuracy restoring skills aren't much used outside this situation, though. CherubsArrow (also from archer), especially combined with a heal skill, can let you stay in a fight almost indefinitely, if your stats are high enough to outheal the enemy team.
The basic flow against a boss is to use relevant buff skills (e.g. warrior's MusterStrength or Shepherd's Buff), but only if needed (don't bother using an agility buff unless you use agility-based attacks, for example), then try to get your tension up 3 times (4 times if level 40+ (the probability of the 4th tension up is too low before 40)), then use your strongest attack. Repeat as needed.
At the end of a boss fight comes the treasure room. @Examine the treasure chest of choice (there will be only one unless in a party or as a merchant), you can only choose one. They are a great source of gear and gold throughout your time in @PartyII, so while I prefer going for exp early on, once your character is more established, it's often a good idea to do an easier level where you can beat the boss, instead of a harder level where you have to @RunAway before the boss.
>Game loop
The overall game loop is going to look like this early on:
- Go to shops to buy gear you want/need
- Go to Quest to do a @Party (but don't hesitate to explore other options like @Dungeon!)
- Go to Patty's bar to reheal (early on, prefer going @Home and @Sleep-ing instead, you don't have enough gold to afford to do this, and you need the gear more than you need the time)
- Go back to step 1 until your Fatigue is >= 100%
- @Home and @Sleep
- Go back to step 1
>SP? Class changes?
Starting at level 20, you can change class (including back to the same class). Changing class reduces your level to 1, and, unless the class is mastered, which means you unlocked all its skills, you will reset the SP (skill points) of any class that's not your current or previous class to 0.
SP is gained at a rate of 1 per level, starting at 0, meaning at level 20 you will have 19 natural SP. You can also gain SP through other means, like using a SeedOfSkill.
In addition, changing classes will set your stats back to 1/2 the value they were at when you did the job change, meaning you can start with very beefy stats if you leveled up a lot before changing classes.
I recommend thinking about a nice class combo you would like to use and to raise a second class as soon as you hit level 20, because skill combinations can make you far stronger and more resilient, completely changing the speed at which you will progress in the game. Then, aim to master both classes so you can play around with them, or with other classes, without fearing losing their SP.
Note that regardless of class change conditions, you can always change back to a class that is already your current or previous class, without using any item or anything else.
Once you have established your class combo and unlocked the core skills you need to feel str0nk and 1337, I recommend aiming to level up to 99. It will be 2.5x faster on average if you have strong AoE skills than if you rely on single-target skills, but to best kill bosses, a strong single-target skill is needed. Moreover, sustain skills like self-heals and MP absorption skills will help you progress through more advanced zones long before you would normally be able to do them, netting you far more exp.
>More advanced gameplay
As you progress through the game, you will want better armors, weapons and classes than is normally available. The best way to get better armor is first through chests, where the best armor you can get is the SilverCuirass, and through the casino, where the best weapon is the LiquidMetalSword. Second, through alchemy, although all weapons and armors better than the aforementioned ones are locked behind AdvancedAlchemyRecipes. To perform alchemy, you first need to learn the correct recipe (you can't just look it up on the wiki and write the command, sorry -- I tried!), so go buy those BasicAlchemyRecipe books at the ItemShop! When you have unlocked them all, you will have to complete requests at the HandymanService in exchange for AdvancedAlchemyRecipes. Above this tier is the DivineAlchemyRecipes, but few know how to get ahold of those...
The Casino is biased heavily toward the player, so put in 20 gold * $100 (= 2000 gold) and keep hitting the @$1slot until you reach $1000. Move on to @$10slot until you hit $5000, then do the @$50slot until $10000. From now on, spam the @$100slot and make sure never to @PrizeExchange with less than $10000 left so you can always keep going for more. The Casino is highly exploitable to generate infinite Gold (@PrizeExchange for YggdrasilLeaf and sell those at your Vault) and can also yield the LiquidMetalSword and the ElevatingShoes. You will have to play games against other players to become a gambler with the GamblingHeart, but the other job change items do not have such requirements.
Other ways to get more job items include secret shops, which you'll have to find out how to access on your own :^), the medal shop, the TombolaHouse, and through treasure drops.
Remember how you went to PattysBar every time to reheal? Beside rehealing, Patty also gives you TombolaTickets with every purchase. Those are used at the TombolaHouse to win prizes. If you're looking for class change items, save up to 300 tickets to access a special tombola (1/3 chance of nothing, but otherwise a better chance at job change items). You can otherwise get all kinds of goodies from the regular tombola.
>6 orbs? Sealed ones???
The title screen for the game mentions 6 orbs and "the Sealed Ones". What are those? Well, they're very-late-game concepts that are of no matter for beginners. As you play the game, you may chance upon orbs. Go home and @Use them to sacrifice them to Ramia's altar. After you give 6 different orbs, you can go to a secret level
The Sealed Ones are special bosses that can be fought using the OrbOfDarkness. Upon defeating them, they will become "unsealed", and a SealBattle will begin. SealBattles allow anyone in @PartyII to try to fight the boss in order to Seal it again. There is a time limit to Sealing the boss back in.
So far, we have not seen Ramia's resurrection or a Sealed One, but we are close to Ramia's. Sealed Ones require more brave and strong players like YOU to join us NOW!
In this post I want to lay out some "what do I even do in this game?" kind of advice. It's not authoritative or anything, but it's more interesting than "well, there are some areas you can go to... or something".
First, we have a version with contextual music available at https://cgi.heyuri.net/party2/bgm-frame.html so use that URL instead of the normal (/party2/) if you like that kind of things!
Second, we have a userscript that changes the interface in various ways, such as adding chat macros and ensuring actions are only sent to the server when the server is ready, so you don't have to log back in if you dared speak too fast. It is a big hack due to how the server works, so it suppresses some messages (like "you can't @Proceed" after you reach the treasure room), and so you should only use it after you get somewhat familiar with the game. Usage is, of course, entirely optional in any case. It is available here:
https://greasyfork.org/en/scripts/472792-heyparty
>New character
First thing you'll have to do is register a new character. Not all classes are created equal. At the beginning of the game, magic type classes are starter to begin with than physical characters. However, physical characters have better late-game potential.
I recommend one of these starting classes:
- Mage - manage your MP well so you won't have to @RunAway midway through a @Party quest. The fixed damage nature of Mage spells make them excellent starting characters since you don't have to build stats or get good weapons to start hitting hard. Invest in armor first so you can beat up bosses and get treasure as soon as you can.
- Shepherd - agility is low so you won't wear much equipment. You will rely on slowly wittling down rooms using Nap to recover, so invest in a weapon rather than armor until you can consistently reach the boss. You should use your defense boost (Buff) to face the boss when you have low base armor. BodySlam is an excellent skill, but it will also hurt you by quite a bit. An interesting trick is that since negative statuses overwrite each other, if you're facing a boss that does MotionSeal a lot, you can Nap for "free" (your sleep will be cancelled as soon as you receive your MotionSeal) right after you BodySlam the boss.
- Thief - While not the easiest to start with, with high agility they're able to equip all the gear you want. Early on, gear carries you to places you shouldn't be, which makes them a good choice for a starting character, if you can get through the first few level ups on your own.
Other classes can be good, too (warrior is a very strong early character and remains valuable at any stage of the game, for example, sporting the 2nd most powerful single-target attack in the game, a decent fixed-damage AoE, and the awesome MusterStrength buff. Archer has the second best AoE in the game (NonsenseArrow), one of the rare MP regeneration skills (CherubsArrow), and an OK single-target skill (FlashArrow). However, they can be harder to start with because they require good stats to truly shine. Early on, physical attackers will also be plague with accuracy issues, enemy armor damage reduction, and low damage due to low attack stats. Magic users use mostly fixed-damage skills that bypass enemy armor and cannot miss (although they can be dodged, this is rare), meanwhile.
>Commands
The game is text command-based, verbs are preceded by @ and targets by >. For example, @Move>Quest will move to the zone called Quest, @Buy>MedicinalHerb will buy an item called MedicinalHerb. The game also features interactive HTML elements (i.e. tables, buttons...) that allow you to generate those command strings more easily. For example, clicking @Buy at the ItemShop will show a table of items you may buy. You can then click an entry and the game will put @Buy>[ItemName] in the chatbox for you.
>How to start
Depending on your character, go to the weapon and/or armor store and buy some starting gear. Mind your agility: if it gets too low, you will not be able to hit enemies (at 0 agility, they have a 38% chance to dodge any of your physical attacks).
Some weapons and armors have variable stats, for example variable attack power and variable weight values. Due to how the game works, those values will update with every page reload. In combat, the values will be fixed throughout each room regardless of reloads, but they will change between rooms. Those are generally not recommended, although they can be a good choice if you really lack a certain stat (e.g. attack power) and need something lighter than you can otherwise find to gamble on facing a boss with a high enough attack value.
Do not bother buying items such as MedicinalHerb or AntidoteHerb. They are too much of a moneysink at this point, and of very limited use. At best, they can help you beat the first 3 bosses a little easier, but it's faster and cheaper to just level up a little more instead.
The main activity in the game is to go fight in @Party quests. You can form parties to do so, but it's better to go alone until you understand the game mechanics. Beside, parties are complicated due to turn ordering, it's not like a typical RPG.
In any case, @Move>Quest, then do @Make to create a quest. Choose the @Party quest and choose PuniPuniPlains as the area. Choose a party name and press @Party to get started.
>How 2 fite
Fighting is straightforward for the most part. However, note that @Attack or @Skill for single-target Skills will choose an enemy at random (likewise for single-target buffs, they will choose an ally at random) by default. You can target those moves by choosing the move, and then clicking the target (i.e. the enemy's sprite) to generate a string like @Attack>@SlimeA. This will ensure you attack this specific enemies.
Enemies (like allies) in any position will take 15% less damage than in the previous position. For example, the vanguard takes 100% damage from all sources, but the rearguard in a 4-man party takes only ~61.4% damage. Therefore, unless there are particularly nasty enemies, such as those that can poison or paralyze you, you should do targeted attacks against the frontmost enemy to kill them as fast as possible. Note that this doesn't actually affect the total damage you receive because the entire enemy team moves exactly once anytime anyone on the ally team moves (and except for magic, only the frontmost enemy will attack next).
@Party quests are formed of "rounds", a certain amount of fight with small fries that ends with a boss fight and, if successful, a treasure room.
>Boss????
Early on, you might not even be able to reach all the way to the 10th round (the boss round). That's OK, just @RunAway when you die, reheal, and come back for more. You will slowly grow in level and gather enough gold and agility to buy some better gear. Eventually, you'll be able to face the boss confidently.
Bosses are mostly statchecks, there isn't that much tactic that can be employed because of the way the game turns work. However, you can increase your odds significantly if you have the right skill combination (for example, a cheap heal skill like Monk's chakra can let you stay alive far longer, enabling you to beat a boss you wouldn't be able to approach otherwise). Early on, you will benefit from a skill like archer's FocusPocus, which restores your accuracy, since the 2nd boss loves to cast Sandstorm a lot. Accuracy restoring skills aren't much used outside this situation, though. CherubsArrow (also from archer), especially combined with a heal skill, can let you stay in a fight almost indefinitely, if your stats are high enough to outheal the enemy team.
The basic flow against a boss is to use relevant buff skills (e.g. warrior's MusterStrength or Shepherd's Buff), but only if needed (don't bother using an agility buff unless you use agility-based attacks, for example), then try to get your tension up 3 times (4 times if level 40+ (the probability of the 4th tension up is too low before 40)), then use your strongest attack. Repeat as needed.
At the end of a boss fight comes the treasure room. @Examine the treasure chest of choice (there will be only one unless in a party or as a merchant), you can only choose one. They are a great source of gear and gold throughout your time in @PartyII, so while I prefer going for exp early on, once your character is more established, it's often a good idea to do an easier level where you can beat the boss, instead of a harder level where you have to @RunAway before the boss.
>Game loop
The overall game loop is going to look like this early on:
- Go to shops to buy gear you want/need
- Go to Quest to do a @Party (but don't hesitate to explore other options like @Dungeon!)
- Go to Patty's bar to reheal (early on, prefer going @Home and @Sleep-ing instead, you don't have enough gold to afford to do this, and you need the gear more than you need the time)
- Go back to step 1 until your Fatigue is >= 100%
- @Home and @Sleep
- Go back to step 1
>SP? Class changes?
Starting at level 20, you can change class (including back to the same class). Changing class reduces your level to 1, and, unless the class is mastered, which means you unlocked all its skills, you will reset the SP (skill points) of any class that's not your current or previous class to 0.
SP is gained at a rate of 1 per level, starting at 0, meaning at level 20 you will have 19 natural SP. You can also gain SP through other means, like using a SeedOfSkill.
In addition, changing classes will set your stats back to 1/2 the value they were at when you did the job change, meaning you can start with very beefy stats if you leveled up a lot before changing classes.
I recommend thinking about a nice class combo you would like to use and to raise a second class as soon as you hit level 20, because skill combinations can make you far stronger and more resilient, completely changing the speed at which you will progress in the game. Then, aim to master both classes so you can play around with them, or with other classes, without fearing losing their SP.
Note that regardless of class change conditions, you can always change back to a class that is already your current or previous class, without using any item or anything else.
Once you have established your class combo and unlocked the core skills you need to feel str0nk and 1337, I recommend aiming to level up to 99. It will be 2.5x faster on average if you have strong AoE skills than if you rely on single-target skills, but to best kill bosses, a strong single-target skill is needed. Moreover, sustain skills like self-heals and MP absorption skills will help you progress through more advanced zones long before you would normally be able to do them, netting you far more exp.
>More advanced gameplay
As you progress through the game, you will want better armors, weapons and classes than is normally available. The best way to get better armor is first through chests, where the best armor you can get is the SilverCuirass, and through the casino, where the best weapon is the LiquidMetalSword. Second, through alchemy, although all weapons and armors better than the aforementioned ones are locked behind AdvancedAlchemyRecipes. To perform alchemy, you first need to learn the correct recipe (you can't just look it up on the wiki and write the command, sorry -- I tried!), so go buy those BasicAlchemyRecipe books at the ItemShop! When you have unlocked them all, you will have to complete requests at the HandymanService in exchange for AdvancedAlchemyRecipes. Above this tier is the DivineAlchemyRecipes, but few know how to get ahold of those...
The Casino is biased heavily toward the player, so put in 20 gold * $100 (= 2000 gold) and keep hitting the @$1slot until you reach $1000. Move on to @$10slot until you hit $5000, then do the @$50slot until $10000. From now on, spam the @$100slot and make sure never to @PrizeExchange with less than $10000 left so you can always keep going for more. The Casino is highly exploitable to generate infinite Gold (@PrizeExchange for YggdrasilLeaf and sell those at your Vault) and can also yield the LiquidMetalSword and the ElevatingShoes. You will have to play games against other players to become a gambler with the GamblingHeart, but the other job change items do not have such requirements.
Other ways to get more job items include secret shops, which you'll have to find out how to access on your own :^), the medal shop, the TombolaHouse, and through treasure drops.
Remember how you went to PattysBar every time to reheal? Beside rehealing, Patty also gives you TombolaTickets with every purchase. Those are used at the TombolaHouse to win prizes. If you're looking for class change items, save up to 300 tickets to access a special tombola (1/3 chance of nothing, but otherwise a better chance at job change items). You can otherwise get all kinds of goodies from the regular tombola.
>6 orbs? Sealed ones???
The title screen for the game mentions 6 orbs and "the Sealed Ones". What are those? Well, they're very-late-game concepts that are of no matter for beginners. As you play the game, you may chance upon orbs. Go home and @Use them to sacrifice them to Ramia's altar. After you give 6 different orbs, you can go to a secret level
The Sealed Ones are special bosses that can be fought using the OrbOfDarkness. Upon defeating them, they will become "unsealed", and a SealBattle will begin. SealBattles allow anyone in @PartyII to try to fight the boss in order to Seal it again. There is a time limit to Sealing the boss back in.
So far, we have not seen Ramia's resurrection or a Sealed One, but we are close to Ramia's. Sealed Ones require more brave and strong players like YOU to join us NOW!
Re: @PartyII gameplay discussion Anonymous 2023/08/15(Tue) 14:10 No.89
About "going to 99", this means leveling up all the way to 99 and then resetting to either your current or previous class, so as to keep building more SP until mastery. Depending on where the important skills of your class are located, you might instead want to master your classes first and then level them up. So long as you remain careful while swapping classes around so as to not lose the classes you want to keep, any combination is possible.
Re: @PartyII gameplay discussion Anonymous 2023/08/15(Tue) 15:59 No.90
I just learned that there is a natural stat cap of 255 for attack, agility and defense. This drastically changes some of the assumptions in this thread. For example,
- Any stat growth of more than 3 for agility, attack or defense is a waste, since after a few level 99 resets, you will be maxed eitherway.
- MP and HP have a cap of 999 rather than 255, so they're the stats you really want to invest in, e.g. with SP
- The maximum attack with LiquidMetalSword equipped is 405, and the maximum fully buffed attack is 637. Therefore, with LiquidMetalSword, only 1 Oomph or MusterStrength or Oath is needed to achieve the maximum theoretical attack value (it the buff would normally take your attack to 660, but it is capped at 2.5x your base attack, which maxes out at 255, thus a hard cap of 637).
- 637 attack with a *1 multiplier is about as strong as a 319 attack armor-piercing skill. Kazapple does up to 100 + 3*85 = 355 armor-piercing damage, so unbuffed, it is a little stronger than a regular attack.
- Skills like BlueMage's SelfDestruct and LiquidMetalSlime's MagicBurst are more powerful than once thought, dishing out up to 998 armor-piercing damage. By comparison, a successful HatchetMan "only" deals 955 damage before armor reduction (and this requires using up one turn to buff, while MagicBurst has no such need, and SelfDestruct needs Resurrect or similar).
- Since the highest-health enemy in the game has about 12k health, compared to the max damage of about 8k with MagicBurst at 8x tension, those skills are not the most useful for a boss kill anyway (especially since that boss is accompanied by a couple high-armor balls).
- An armor piercing move with a multiplier of at least 1.6 achieves more damage than MagicBurst.
- ChocoBuckle at 637 agility is exactly as powerful as a successful HatchetMan, but does not get reduced further by armor, pulling slightly ahead
- There are no bosses with >999 defense, only boss "assist" mobs that have very low health (except for one special boss... but he has only 25 HP)
- The real boss with the most defense has about 400 defense
- The most powerful attack in the game against this boss is Berserker's frenzy, which has 1/4 chance of hitting a random ally instead of a random enemy. If it were to actually hit a theoretical boss which has both the most defense and the most health out of the game's bosses, it would deal 14008 damage. The healthiest boss having 12000 HP, it would be an instant kill. Also, since frenzy is a sure hit, it will not be blocked by AttackReflect, or Parry.
- Gigadrain, which deals up to 300 damage, it stupidly powerful given the free heal and the limitations on stat values
- Many bosses hit very hard, so armor buffs are actually very useful, as are break skills (which reset boss attack and defense to their unbuffed state)
- Since armor doesn't really matter due to tension, stat down skills still aren't useful because enemies with hp > 999 are immune to attack down and hp down, and have too much mp and max mp for mp down to do anything worthwhile.
- It may be tactically advantageous to have the following skills among the party:
-- Partywide defense buffs (party-wide magic/attack resists/reflects are nice, but they only last one turn while buffs are forever)
-- Break skill (DisruptionWave or WeaponBreak)
-- Purge skills, like Esuna
-- Heals (obviously)
Beside this, a mobber or two and a boss killer to complete the party.
Note that bosses can have up to 500 hit rate, so hit rate reduction skills are not necessarily that useful. Sandstorm, which reduces hit rate by 20% per hit, would require 8 applications before bringing the boss's hit rate below 100%.
Since 255 is the max stat, the best AoE in the game is Arithmetician's xFlare (260 damage, although it's situational and thus not viable), Summoner's Bahamut (210 damage), Majin's BigRampage at 200 armor piercing damage (I exclude the summoners' skills, because BubbleMaster's, is no longer accessible past level 70, and dragonrider/slimerider's are random), not the variable skills like PearlyGates, which is 191, or NonsenseArrow which is 178 damage.
However, if you find that buffing before doing an AoE is useful, you can get up to 477 damage with PearlyGates and 318 damage from NonsenseArrow at 637 defense or agi respectively. For NonsenseArrow, this would require lucking out on agility gear's random weight value to achieve, or using 2 buffs. This also couldn't be achieved while wearing real armor or weapons. Therefore, in practice, that's untenable. PearlyGates, on the other hand, is achievable with 3 buffs, as the max defense buff is merely +40% per cast. That said, PearlyGates deals more damage than even xFlare after just 1 buff (though that is before armor reduction, and it can still miss; endgame enemy armor can reduce that 267 AoE damage down to 167).
- Any stat growth of more than 3 for agility, attack or defense is a waste, since after a few level 99 resets, you will be maxed eitherway.
- MP and HP have a cap of 999 rather than 255, so they're the stats you really want to invest in, e.g. with SP
- The maximum attack with LiquidMetalSword equipped is 405, and the maximum fully buffed attack is 637. Therefore, with LiquidMetalSword, only 1 Oomph or MusterStrength or Oath is needed to achieve the maximum theoretical attack value (it the buff would normally take your attack to 660, but it is capped at 2.5x your base attack, which maxes out at 255, thus a hard cap of 637).
- 637 attack with a *1 multiplier is about as strong as a 319 attack armor-piercing skill. Kazapple does up to 100 + 3*85 = 355 armor-piercing damage, so unbuffed, it is a little stronger than a regular attack.
- Skills like BlueMage's SelfDestruct and LiquidMetalSlime's MagicBurst are more powerful than once thought, dishing out up to 998 armor-piercing damage. By comparison, a successful HatchetMan "only" deals 955 damage before armor reduction (and this requires using up one turn to buff, while MagicBurst has no such need, and SelfDestruct needs Resurrect or similar).
- Since the highest-health enemy in the game has about 12k health, compared to the max damage of about 8k with MagicBurst at 8x tension, those skills are not the most useful for a boss kill anyway (especially since that boss is accompanied by a couple high-armor balls).
- An armor piercing move with a multiplier of at least 1.6 achieves more damage than MagicBurst.
- ChocoBuckle at 637 agility is exactly as powerful as a successful HatchetMan, but does not get reduced further by armor, pulling slightly ahead
- There are no bosses with >999 defense, only boss "assist" mobs that have very low health (except for one special boss... but he has only 25 HP)
- The real boss with the most defense has about 400 defense
- The most powerful attack in the game against this boss is Berserker's frenzy, which has 1/4 chance of hitting a random ally instead of a random enemy. If it were to actually hit a theoretical boss which has both the most defense and the most health out of the game's bosses, it would deal 14008 damage. The healthiest boss having 12000 HP, it would be an instant kill. Also, since frenzy is a sure hit, it will not be blocked by AttackReflect, or Parry.
- Gigadrain, which deals up to 300 damage, it stupidly powerful given the free heal and the limitations on stat values
- Many bosses hit very hard, so armor buffs are actually very useful, as are break skills (which reset boss attack and defense to their unbuffed state)
- Since armor doesn't really matter due to tension, stat down skills still aren't useful because enemies with hp > 999 are immune to attack down and hp down, and have too much mp and max mp for mp down to do anything worthwhile.
- It may be tactically advantageous to have the following skills among the party:
-- Partywide defense buffs (party-wide magic/attack resists/reflects are nice, but they only last one turn while buffs are forever)
-- Break skill (DisruptionWave or WeaponBreak)
-- Purge skills, like Esuna
-- Heals (obviously)
Beside this, a mobber or two and a boss killer to complete the party.
Note that bosses can have up to 500 hit rate, so hit rate reduction skills are not necessarily that useful. Sandstorm, which reduces hit rate by 20% per hit, would require 8 applications before bringing the boss's hit rate below 100%.
Since 255 is the max stat, the best AoE in the game is Arithmetician's xFlare (260 damage, although it's situational and thus not viable), Summoner's Bahamut (210 damage), Majin's BigRampage at 200 armor piercing damage (I exclude the summoners' skills, because BubbleMaster's, is no longer accessible past level 70, and dragonrider/slimerider's are random), not the variable skills like PearlyGates, which is 191, or NonsenseArrow which is 178 damage.
However, if you find that buffing before doing an AoE is useful, you can get up to 477 damage with PearlyGates and 318 damage from NonsenseArrow at 637 defense or agi respectively. For NonsenseArrow, this would require lucking out on agility gear's random weight value to achieve, or using 2 buffs. This also couldn't be achieved while wearing real armor or weapons. Therefore, in practice, that's untenable. PearlyGates, on the other hand, is achievable with 3 buffs, as the max defense buff is merely +40% per cast. That said, PearlyGates deals more damage than even xFlare after just 1 buff (though that is before armor reduction, and it can still miss; endgame enemy armor can reduce that 267 AoE damage down to 167).
Re: @PartyII gameplay discussion Anonymous 2023/08/15(Tue) 16:48 No.91
Also, since the highest stat is 255, and due to how buffs and weapons work, there is no point in using a weapon with more than 127 attack. Hence, ShamshirOfLight with MightyBracer or LiquidMetalSword is as strong a weapon as anyone needs for normal use.
ZenithianSword and SomaticStaff, which give you an attack score that's randomly selected between 0 and your max HP or MP respectively, are the best weapons in the game since they have a 75% chance of being at least as good as the LiquidMetalSword, and a 50% chance of overmaxing your stats (meaning you can't even apply buffs if you try), and they're the only way to go beyond the buff limit, i.e. they can give you up to +500 attack, compared to +382 for Oomph + any weapon with at least 127 attack.
For armor, since the best buff only gives you +40%, you can benefit from up to +281 defense to max out defense in one buff. Erdrick armor, the best fixed armor, "only" gives +180. Equipping GoldBracer adds another +50 to defense for +230 max, which is still 50 off the maximum buffed value, though that 50 is less than 10% of your armor value at that point, so you can consider this close enough maxed.
Alternatively, the DragovianKingArmor gives variable armor up to +320, which, when combined with GoldBracer, is 12 short from the maximum buffed value at its peak.
It also means that the assumptions that axe-type weapons are anything but rubbish was wrong. In fact, even weapons beyond LiquidMetalSword merely add to your weight without impacting your peak attack damage. The bonus attack is somewhat useful if you want to AoE, except as discussed previously, you would rather stick to PearlyGates for this. With ErdrickArmor and maxed defense, PearlyGates deals 326 damage before armor reduction. With a max DragovianKingArmor, it would be 431.
ZenithianSword and SomaticStaff, which give you an attack score that's randomly selected between 0 and your max HP or MP respectively, are the best weapons in the game since they have a 75% chance of being at least as good as the LiquidMetalSword, and a 50% chance of overmaxing your stats (meaning you can't even apply buffs if you try), and they're the only way to go beyond the buff limit, i.e. they can give you up to +500 attack, compared to +382 for Oomph + any weapon with at least 127 attack.
For armor, since the best buff only gives you +40%, you can benefit from up to +281 defense to max out defense in one buff. Erdrick armor, the best fixed armor, "only" gives +180. Equipping GoldBracer adds another +50 to defense for +230 max, which is still 50 off the maximum buffed value, though that 50 is less than 10% of your armor value at that point, so you can consider this close enough maxed.
Alternatively, the DragovianKingArmor gives variable armor up to +320, which, when combined with GoldBracer, is 12 short from the maximum buffed value at its peak.
It also means that the assumptions that axe-type weapons are anything but rubbish was wrong. In fact, even weapons beyond LiquidMetalSword merely add to your weight without impacting your peak attack damage. The bonus attack is somewhat useful if you want to AoE, except as discussed previously, you would rather stick to PearlyGates for this. With ErdrickArmor and maxed defense, PearlyGates deals 326 damage before armor reduction. With a max DragovianKingArmor, it would be 431.
Re: @PartyII gameplay discussion Anonymous 2023/08/15(Tue) 16:49 No.92
Randomly selected between 0 and HALF your max HP/MP*
Re: @PartyII gameplay discussion Anonymous 2023/08/15(Tue) 17:42 No.93
>So far, we have not seen Ramia's resurrection or a Sealed One
Just a small correction: kaguya has already resurrected Ramia once!
For a (potentially) limited time only, u can see it in one of the PhotoContest submissions: https://cgi.heyuri.net/party2/contest.cgi
Just a small correction: kaguya has already resurrected Ramia once!
For a (potentially) limited time only, u can see it in one of the PhotoContest submissions: https://cgi.heyuri.net/party2/contest.cgi
Re: @PartyII gameplay discussion Anonymous 2023/08/15(Tue) 20:03 No.94
Noooo I can't believe I missed ramia's glorious return ;_;